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 Class balance.

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Which is the most underpowered class?
Scout
13%
 13% [ 1 ]
Soldier
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Pyro
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Heavy
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Demoman
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Engineer
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Sniper
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Medic
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Spy
87%
 87% [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 8
 

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Master Chaos
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PostSubject: Class balance.   Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:33 am

in order:
Scouts: As they were designed to be, Scouts are near if not perfectly balanced.
They rely on speed to overcome their opponents. Due to their speed, they have the lowest Max Hp in the game, they overcome this disadvantage with their greatest advantage: speed. Their Scattergun is meant for close combat/ambush, as it has a higher reload time than most other weapons, as well as it's extremlely low accuracy. Meant for upclose combat it is VERY lethal at point blank, as it can reduce most opponents health to near death in one (Point Blank) blow.
The Pistol was meant for when the Scattergun became too unreliable, whether in a long-range fight, a retreat while still inflicting noteable damage, or merely picking people off at long range.
The Bat is for when you want to have a higher chance at hitting, while trying to not get hit yourself. Hits twice per second, it is noteable for its reialbility in 1 on 1 fights.
Continuned when my fingers stop hurting.
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PostSubject: Re: Class balance.   Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:29 pm

The Spy is incredibly underpowered due to their behind-the-line technique. Apparently, the revolver can be used to cause major damage, but it takes major skill to due so. The knive is instant kill from behind, and the face, but other wise is easily overcome. Spys do have a great arsenal of abilities, half of them require the spy to act suspiciously to use. A spy can almost always be found out in a crowd, and are very easy to check ( Be Twitchy). When Valve eventually updates the spy, they should get something to help them live longer...maybe a helpful little vest to keep some damage away, but only when disguised.

And that's what I have to say about that.
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PostSubject: Re: Class balance.   Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:41 am

Z wrote:
Apparently, the revolver can be used to cause major damage, but it takes major skill to due so.
Not nesaraly, although it is harder to use it than the other weapons, it is not to the point where only experts can, although most people don't use it they should, mainly due to the fact that at close range it has the capablilty to do 90 damage, and a crit does 120 no matter what the range is. (I owned a sniper with a relover across the battlments once and it was awesome!
Z wrote:
The knive is instant kill from behind, and the face, but other wise is easily overcome.
Stabbing someone in the face does NOT result in a back-stab. Trust me
Z wrote:
Spys do have a great arsenal of abilities, half of them require the spy to act suspiciously to use. A spy can almost always be found out in a crowd, and are very easy to check ( Be Twitchy).
The main focus of a spy is to blend in, take out a target, and dissapear. Spys are not a class that is meant for mass murder or even killing more than one person at once ussually. A good spy can blend in at first and depending on the map it may or may not take serious skill to play the spy well. (2Fort=Expert Why? Paranoia. In such close spaces with only a few entrances and exits to the main goal paranoia will skyrocket it will become increaseingly hard to be a spy in 2Fort with just 1 Engie. Spy-checking is near unavoidable and at a constant with the ability to replenicsh ammo near a resupply.
Z wrote:
When Valve eventually updates the spy, they should get something to help them live longer...maybe a helpful little vest to keep some damage away, but only when disguised.
Spys do need better equipment, check out the spy update! It has a lot of great ideas for a spy!

Z wrote:
And that's what I have to say about that.

Same Here.
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PostSubject: Continued...   Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:09 am

Soldiers: Well balanced save for the crit-a-paloza they are famous for.
Rely on force and unexpected tactics to live, kill, kill, and generaly piss people off.
The Soldier is an extremely versitale class able to adapt to nearly any positon, event, or disturbance.
The Rocket-Launcher is the weapon of choice for the Soldier, it has a large damage output:
Direct hit: 92-112 (270 crit)
Splash at 3ft/1m: 60-81 (226 crit)
Splash at 6ft/2m: 43-52 (140 crit)
Damage to Self: 27-46/51
As well as allowing the Soldier to be able to rocket-jump, they can also use it to avoid life/death situations with a double rocket-jump!

Continued soon...
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PostSubject: Re: Class balance.   Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:44 pm

I've seen that map... Specifically made so only a Soldier with great rocket-jumping skills can win it... Or a needle-jumped Engi...

And i think the SPY should have much more in their arsenal to help them blend in. Perhaps, a scanning type of weapon, allowing them to disguise as a scout with his baseball bat out, or an engi with his lunch box out.

I stick with my vest thing, but it would only work when disguised. It would keep the Spy from bleeding and give him more health, but would stop helping the Spy once he un-disguised.

Yes, I know Spys are supposed to blend in and be sneaky... They're spys... But they're still really week and easy to thwart... At least in 2Fort...

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PostSubject: Re: Class balance.   Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:36 am

Smaller hitboxes or going through enemys while disguised.
Your choice.

Also the cloak argument you put up, true. It should be replenished faster, or at the very least regenerate at an equal rate to what would be taken off when used. That way, you don't spend half an hour trying to get slose enough to a sentry in Dustbowl to sap it without being spotted. But what should really be done, is improve the speed of the spy to medic speed, that way-and I quote 'You won't have to spend your entire time chasing an enemy across the map for one backstab.'

EAT IT
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PostSubject: Re: Class balance.   Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:00 pm

A lot of the things put up in the fake Spy update are great ideas. I still say you should get a disguise vest, but a lot of these seem very good as well. That strangler thing would be an odd animation though. I'd like to see that in the game, though. Half of me thinks that may be too graphic, but, then again, so is blowing people into many tiny, gory bits.

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PostSubject: Re: Class balance.   Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:06 pm

The vest would be a nice addition, because then enemys wouldn't be completely sure as to who is or is not a spy.
What I think the vest should do, is reduce damage from melee weapons to half or less. That way it would be harder for Engies to get rid of Spys' rather than hitting them once, killing them, and then knocking off the dispenser.

Also, yes it had many brillant ideas for the spy and I would like to see a Scout strangle a Engie, and then sap the sentry.

Things can NEVER be TOO graphic.
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PostSubject: Re: Class balance.   Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:11 pm

Yea, with the vest, a spy couldn't be randomly killed by a random wrench swing or, in Masters' case, a random headshot, though that's pure awesome.

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PostSubject: Re: Class balance.   Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:16 pm

Once is luck.
Twice is skill.
Thrice...DAAAAAAAAMMMNNNNN!!!

But in seriousness that was just too damn hilarious!
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PostSubject: Re: Class balance.   Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:23 pm

Two headshots to invisible spys is insane.

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PostSubject: Re: Class balance.   Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:25 pm

I know.
The first time I did it I tracked where I thought he was going to be.
The second time was just absoposativly freaking insane luck.
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PostSubject: Re: Class balance.   Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:46 pm

The Spy is the only Class i can think of as underpowered. BUT the spy makes up for that with the Backstab Glitches that it has. If you keep running into an enemy who is also moving (He must be moving to be "Front Backstabbed" the screen goes all shakey as you and the Person your trying to Backstab collide. But you actually go through them for a moment, 50% of the time it counts as a Backstab but it's not a viable tactic although it gives the Spy ability to kill the target facing him which somewhat balances things out.
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PostSubject: Re: Class balance.   Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:21 am

If this is true, I will murder everyone and everything!
Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Spy power   Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:46 am

I always thought the spies were too good to tell you the truth. my highscore of 36 on the 360 is with the spy and i know the frustration of battling spies as an engineer, sniper or heavy. The vest idea would make this frustration exponential. I do agree that it does need to be mastered, so maybe they need to level out the learning curve a little more, but really i think the sniper is the most unbalanced. You have to be an expert sniper to do anything with him and its impossible to rack up a high score with him. Not that i have a problem with his unbalance, since being good as a sniper is the point of picking that class. To manage this though, i liked the idea of a bigger red dot, but maybe also have the neck and heart as critical hits. Best idea!: have kneecap hits slow enemies down and stomach hits make them bleed out. that would make me want to play sniper.
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PostSubject: spy evenness   Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:52 am

If you really wanted the spy to be better if ur not an expert, i loved the ideas of the spy update, except that would mean just too many weapons. maybe have the current pistol with an added silencer that doesn't make ur disguise disappear but would still be hard to shoot, but have it so the silencer could be removable so it would pack a lot more power at a faster reload time, making it easier to use without mastering it. also, the spy could have a radar on his watch or something. that would make it a lot easier and still stay true to spy character.
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PostSubject: Re: Class balance.   Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:12 am

I will post more when I get on the comp but...

I normally get around 120 points per round as Sniper.
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